I don't know if any other Owner has experienced the lack of a cohesive Sales Policy within the Club and its Staff? I went into the office to enquire about possibly Buying; upgrading or swopping my HL as accessing the many stairs is becoming increasingly difficult. I was told Sales person worked from home and verbally given her number to phone her myself.
On reflection I wondered why my details hadn't been noted by Reception Staff, name; mobile number; Unit No./Week presently owned and emailed on to Sales person for her to contact me. How many other Sales opportunities are being missed because Staff haven't been trained to do this simple task.
Ronnie
Staff Training
I would say plenty.
We have spent money on sales training last year and I have yet to see any results.
If we were unable to offload/ sell less than 100 ownersweeks in the last 12 months we have an issue especially when you have an abundance of staff employed in a customer facing arena.
The new salesperson coming onboard hopefully is prepared to meet prospective owners face to face and have a friendly, non invasive presence.
The other major thing that has to be considered at a time of having over 2000 lodges for sale is the number of lodges owned on 3-5 year terms all coming back to club stock in the next 18 months.
Sales are paramount.
We have spent money on sales training last year and I have yet to see any results.
If we were unable to offload/ sell less than 100 ownersweeks in the last 12 months we have an issue especially when you have an abundance of staff employed in a customer facing arena.
The new salesperson coming onboard hopefully is prepared to meet prospective owners face to face and have a friendly, non invasive presence.
The other major thing that has to be considered at a time of having over 2000 lodges for sale is the number of lodges owned on 3-5 year terms all coming back to club stock in the next 18 months.
Sales are paramount.
OMGosh, 2000 Unit weeks for SALE and more being off loaded back into the Club's ownership within the next few years! It makes one wonder just how feasible it will be for the Club to sustain its existence.
I can't quite remember now, but did Nick Pattie initially consider buying into the Club?
Perhaps at the AGM the Committee could ask existing LRHC Perpetuity Owners to vote on the Committee making an approach to Nick Pattie to open discussions on a mutually beneficial 'Block Purchase' by Nick of a percentage of those 2,000 weeks that are up for Sale, to be used for Hotel Accommodation?
I just hope the Committee is not so short sighted as to forego our access to the Spa/Leisure Facilities to save owners a few pounds, as the value of each week owned would be greatly diminished. I
Ronnie
I can't quite remember now, but did Nick Pattie initially consider buying into the Club?
Perhaps at the AGM the Committee could ask existing LRHC Perpetuity Owners to vote on the Committee making an approach to Nick Pattie to open discussions on a mutually beneficial 'Block Purchase' by Nick of a percentage of those 2,000 weeks that are up for Sale, to be used for Hotel Accommodation?
I just hope the Committee is not so short sighted as to forego our access to the Spa/Leisure Facilities to save owners a few pounds, as the value of each week owned would be greatly diminished. I
Ronnie
I personally would investigate the option of him purchasing the studio and apartments.
As I have suggested before there are more lodges for sale in both of those and a survey of owners would be recommended.
Maybe an approach has been made and for apparent rental purposes- rejected?
This would also reduce club stock and bring additional revenue to club for other lodges.
It also would create a more manageable portfolio of lodges reducing to around 3500 weeks and fit for the future.
The club could offer favourable terms for owners to move to better lodges.
I know rental income would potentially be affected, but with plenty more lodges for rent at slightly higher rates, this could be overcome and longer term rentals sought.
One night rentals were a short term solution during covid to increase revenue, but when budgeted wage bill is over 50% of revenue,maybe a change in strategy is required?
Owners must come first and the full facts provided.
As I have suggested before there are more lodges for sale in both of those and a survey of owners would be recommended.
Maybe an approach has been made and for apparent rental purposes- rejected?
This would also reduce club stock and bring additional revenue to club for other lodges.
It also would create a more manageable portfolio of lodges reducing to around 3500 weeks and fit for the future.
The club could offer favourable terms for owners to move to better lodges.
I know rental income would potentially be affected, but with plenty more lodges for rent at slightly higher rates, this could be overcome and longer term rentals sought.
One night rentals were a short term solution during covid to increase revenue, but when budgeted wage bill is over 50% of revenue,maybe a change in strategy is required?
Owners must come first and the full facts provided.
I will do my best to answer the various comments on this thread.
Ronnie mentions that he was asked to ring our Member Relations specialist rather than she ringing him. That point has already ben noted. This position is filled by Julie who works from home for personal reasons with our agreement and she has secure access to our relevant databases. She has done great work in finding more appropriate lodges for Members as just like me they become older.She will continue in that role after the new sales executive joins us and he will be seeking sales from renters and other sources.
Yes we have spent some money on staff training and it has paid off although the number of Club weeks is still a problem. In days gone by the staff could be less than friendly because previous administrations never seemed tom realise that we are a Members’ Club. The clue is in the name and so whatever we do should be ultimately to improve the Club for its Members. When I was up in February I was so pleased and proud of our staff. Bearing in mind that I am a critical and questioning sort of person, when I both spoke to them and listened to how they spoke to others and it was excellent. There was a proper interaction on both arrival and departure which is so important in getting people to visit again. I had taken two young people with me and they were there for some market research to get their views on the Club experience. Our Member relations lady was answering questions from a sceptical couple and she was offering solutions for all their misgivings. She told them that if they wanted to buy but only wanted four days then fine, we would rent out the rest of the week from them. She outlined the choice of perpetuity or a five-year deal. She explained how they could Exchange. Richard and myself just sat back and listened and I knew then that if we don’t succeed in our challenges that it won’t be for want of trying. We re doing it all logically and calmly but also with determination. The trainer is returning later this year and I look forward to that. Sales training is embedded within his course because we believe that it is all about making the experience a good one so that people return, and having seen what good deals we have they will buy. It still remains for this to translate into the sale of more Club weeks which I expect to happen. We sell lodges all the time but due to the death of Members and their bankruptcy this gives the impression that sales are failing. We intend to work our way through this situation. Finally, I would say that as well as an external trainer coming in, Richard Deak brings his high-end hotel experience to play, insisting that we act correctly towards our Members and visitors rather than treat them as if they were a nuisance. Consequently, I find it an exciting time to be part of this Committee even though there are difficult decisions to be made and the occasional sleepless night.
Regarding the number of Club weeks it is around 1600 empty weeks out of a total of 4335. It costs us about £800,000 per annum in lost fees. Your present Committee largely inherited this problem but instead of doing the traditional thing and hid it, we recognised it and formed plans to deal with it – something which many other timeshares have failed to do. The interim solution which will be needed for some years is rentals. Had we not had our massive increase in rental numbers then by now we would have been in serious financial difficulties. It is not a perfect solution, we pay a lot to online booking agents and our maintenance and housekeeping costs have risen. We also staff the office for longer hours so visitors are welcomed at later hours and can check out earlier. Bear in mind that a well-known high-end establishment has a different idea. They leave your key in a box so help yourself. We are committed to give visitors a better experience than that.
Regarding leisure, we have no plans to forego the spa and leisure to save Owners a few pounds. There are some who would like us to do just that and so as we usually do nowadays, if we thought that was for serious consideration then we would first conduct a poll of Members. As with so many things at the Club we encounter a quite broad set of views about various matters. So, with the spa some would congratulate us for negotiating a Leisure Agreement, whereas others will criticise us accusing us of wasting money. We encounter this all the time and obviously different Members have different views.
Regards to all, John
Ronnie mentions that he was asked to ring our Member Relations specialist rather than she ringing him. That point has already ben noted. This position is filled by Julie who works from home for personal reasons with our agreement and she has secure access to our relevant databases. She has done great work in finding more appropriate lodges for Members as just like me they become older.She will continue in that role after the new sales executive joins us and he will be seeking sales from renters and other sources.
Yes we have spent some money on staff training and it has paid off although the number of Club weeks is still a problem. In days gone by the staff could be less than friendly because previous administrations never seemed tom realise that we are a Members’ Club. The clue is in the name and so whatever we do should be ultimately to improve the Club for its Members. When I was up in February I was so pleased and proud of our staff. Bearing in mind that I am a critical and questioning sort of person, when I both spoke to them and listened to how they spoke to others and it was excellent. There was a proper interaction on both arrival and departure which is so important in getting people to visit again. I had taken two young people with me and they were there for some market research to get their views on the Club experience. Our Member relations lady was answering questions from a sceptical couple and she was offering solutions for all their misgivings. She told them that if they wanted to buy but only wanted four days then fine, we would rent out the rest of the week from them. She outlined the choice of perpetuity or a five-year deal. She explained how they could Exchange. Richard and myself just sat back and listened and I knew then that if we don’t succeed in our challenges that it won’t be for want of trying. We re doing it all logically and calmly but also with determination. The trainer is returning later this year and I look forward to that. Sales training is embedded within his course because we believe that it is all about making the experience a good one so that people return, and having seen what good deals we have they will buy. It still remains for this to translate into the sale of more Club weeks which I expect to happen. We sell lodges all the time but due to the death of Members and their bankruptcy this gives the impression that sales are failing. We intend to work our way through this situation. Finally, I would say that as well as an external trainer coming in, Richard Deak brings his high-end hotel experience to play, insisting that we act correctly towards our Members and visitors rather than treat them as if they were a nuisance. Consequently, I find it an exciting time to be part of this Committee even though there are difficult decisions to be made and the occasional sleepless night.
Regarding the number of Club weeks it is around 1600 empty weeks out of a total of 4335. It costs us about £800,000 per annum in lost fees. Your present Committee largely inherited this problem but instead of doing the traditional thing and hid it, we recognised it and formed plans to deal with it – something which many other timeshares have failed to do. The interim solution which will be needed for some years is rentals. Had we not had our massive increase in rental numbers then by now we would have been in serious financial difficulties. It is not a perfect solution, we pay a lot to online booking agents and our maintenance and housekeeping costs have risen. We also staff the office for longer hours so visitors are welcomed at later hours and can check out earlier. Bear in mind that a well-known high-end establishment has a different idea. They leave your key in a box so help yourself. We are committed to give visitors a better experience than that.
Regarding leisure, we have no plans to forego the spa and leisure to save Owners a few pounds. There are some who would like us to do just that and so as we usually do nowadays, if we thought that was for serious consideration then we would first conduct a poll of Members. As with so many things at the Club we encounter a quite broad set of views about various matters. So, with the spa some would congratulate us for negotiating a Leisure Agreement, whereas others will criticise us accusing us of wasting money. We encounter this all the time and obviously different Members have different views.
Regards to all, John
That is most interesting and indeed the first that Ive heard that owners concerns about the filthy conditions in the spa and their concerns about having to pay for the privilege of others has now been dismissed . The filthy conditions have also been referred to by another owner in a response to the current planning application at tbe marina, albeit that wouldn’t be grounds for objection to the planning application. Clearly others have concerns abour the state of hygiene at the Spa / pool.
The following is an extract of an email sent to me in reply from Mr Deak, GM in June this year.
“Concerning your suggestion about the Leisure contract, I understand where you're coming from. The option to choose whether to participate in the leisure contract or not seems like a reasonable request. However, implementing such a system could prove to be complex and may impact other aspects of our operations. I want to assure you that we take your request seriously.
“Your suggestion is a substantial one, and I agree that it warrants serious consideration. As such, I will ensure that this matter is brought to the attention of the Committee for discussion before we proceed with renewing the Leisure contract. Additionally, I agree with you that this is a topic relevant enough to be put to owners for a vote which you may do so.”
So clearly then, owners who do not want to use the facilities have no choice but to pay and I think there may well be grounds to seek legal advice on this very issue, even though the Directors can make this unpopular decision.
Its not about “ a few owners saving a few pounds” its about principles. Where else are customers expected to pay for goods or services which they do not want ?
The following is an extract of an email sent to me in reply from Mr Deak, GM in June this year.
“Concerning your suggestion about the Leisure contract, I understand where you're coming from. The option to choose whether to participate in the leisure contract or not seems like a reasonable request. However, implementing such a system could prove to be complex and may impact other aspects of our operations. I want to assure you that we take your request seriously.
“Your suggestion is a substantial one, and I agree that it warrants serious consideration. As such, I will ensure that this matter is brought to the attention of the Committee for discussion before we proceed with renewing the Leisure contract. Additionally, I agree with you that this is a topic relevant enough to be put to owners for a vote which you may do so.”
So clearly then, owners who do not want to use the facilities have no choice but to pay and I think there may well be grounds to seek legal advice on this very issue, even though the Directors can make this unpopular decision.
Its not about “ a few owners saving a few pounds” its about principles. Where else are customers expected to pay for goods or services which they do not want ?
Hi John,
Thank you once again for your honest and frank comments.
It is refreshing and it would be hoped that other committee members could act in a similar manner.
There are a few comments I would like to add though, primarily regarding sales.
What constitutes a sale is important considering we have 1600 club owned lodges and a further 450 plus on the website which is owner lodges for sale.
Why club owned lodges and owner lodges for sale are not shown together, in my opinion does not make sense and the excuse given at previous AGM re rentals does not wash as the expenses behind this such as booking.com costs are sadly eating into this so called profit.
Re the question asked about the studios and apartments, if we have a large number for sale would it not be worthwhile investigating this option with the existing owners and maybe it would help avoid the current situation with hotel?
Not that long ago it was confirmed only around 30 club owned lodges had been sold which is a concern. When we include owner lodges this figure was still under 100.
The bigger question I feel is are the club including those lodges who change from in perpetuity to fixed terms in those figures and there have been many?
Regarding the sales training that took place 13 months ago- having no follow up until nearly 18 months later results normally in a loss of impetus and confidence due to this delay.
The lack or apparent lack of responses to those renters who have posted on various sites whether good or bad does not encourage sales. It does the exact opposite and maybe when you read the various issues, it will explain why our trip adviser score and our booking.com score has reduced to what would appear to be the lowest in the area despite what has been suggested by some.
Despite a lot of the issues at the spa etc having the hotel facilties are vital for the club to thrive in the future and I agree with you it was a decision made for the benefit of all and with a little more investment on the hotel front, these issues could be remedied.
Thank you once again for your honest and frank comments.
It is refreshing and it would be hoped that other committee members could act in a similar manner.
There are a few comments I would like to add though, primarily regarding sales.
What constitutes a sale is important considering we have 1600 club owned lodges and a further 450 plus on the website which is owner lodges for sale.
Why club owned lodges and owner lodges for sale are not shown together, in my opinion does not make sense and the excuse given at previous AGM re rentals does not wash as the expenses behind this such as booking.com costs are sadly eating into this so called profit.
Re the question asked about the studios and apartments, if we have a large number for sale would it not be worthwhile investigating this option with the existing owners and maybe it would help avoid the current situation with hotel?
Not that long ago it was confirmed only around 30 club owned lodges had been sold which is a concern. When we include owner lodges this figure was still under 100.
The bigger question I feel is are the club including those lodges who change from in perpetuity to fixed terms in those figures and there have been many?
Regarding the sales training that took place 13 months ago- having no follow up until nearly 18 months later results normally in a loss of impetus and confidence due to this delay.
The lack or apparent lack of responses to those renters who have posted on various sites whether good or bad does not encourage sales. It does the exact opposite and maybe when you read the various issues, it will explain why our trip adviser score and our booking.com score has reduced to what would appear to be the lowest in the area despite what has been suggested by some.
Despite a lot of the issues at the spa etc having the hotel facilties are vital for the club to thrive in the future and I agree with you it was a decision made for the benefit of all and with a little more investment on the hotel front, these issues could be remedied.