Loch Rannoch Highland Club Forums

Whats going on here? How can the club possibly justify a 24% increase or 18% if you ignore the leisure fee.

Correct me if im wrong but the committe have already stated that due to the pandemic maintenance was not carried out which means that members money was not spent so there should be a reduction in costs here.

I understand that our staff were furloughed for probably most of last year and some of this year. This means that assuming all staff were kept on they should only have been paid 80% of their full wage up to £2,500 per month (the same as many members). The government under the job retention scheme would have paid this 80% for most ot the year with a 10% reduction for a very short period. This means that as far as wages are concerned the club would only have had to pay pension contributions and NIC. This money was therefor not spent by the club and again represents a significant reduction in costs.

We are all aware that the club now retains the rates refund previously refunded to members.

Would someone explain to me how a 24% increase in fees can be justified. This is quite frankly outrageous particularly at a time when many members will be struggling financially. We the members own the property and all the club has to do is maintain it. I could rent a week somewhere for a similar amount indeed I could probably rent a week at Loch Rannoch for a similar amount to my management fees. How can this possibly be right. If you owned a property outright would you expect to pay anywhere near the figure the club is charging indeed a months maintenance at the club would probably cover most peoples maintenance of their home for a year.

The club has me locked into paying money when I cant even give my week away and now to add insult to injury they increase fees by 24%. If the club cant be run in a manner where you can confidently rent out your week for considerably more than the fees then in my opinion it should closed, the assets sold off and any proceeds distributed to the members who own the club. The only way members weeks will ever be worth anything is if they can be rented out for considerably more than the fees and if the club cant achieve this then in my opinion it should be closed with the assets sold off for the benefit of members.

Apologies for the rant but I am quite frankly sick of being held to ransom by the club.

I agree with all you say. McDonald at its worst wouldn't have pulled a stunt like this. I too would like to know where all the money has gone.

Unfortunately for years now past Committees have kept owners in the dark about the true financial position of the Club, and whilst some owners questioned the Accounts and the fact they just didn't make any sense and attempted to raise their concerns at AGMs/Owners Meetings, other owners continued to vote the same Committee back into place resulting in the Club spiralling further and further financially out of control.With

It was only when employees and local residents asked owners for assistance from the oppressive regime set up by committee members, some of whom had decided to ignore Covid rules in Scotland and moved to Rannoch during the first lockdown of the club. There apparently followed various unlawful sackings; redundancies etc being made by an unqualified HR Consultant/Committee Member with total disregard of Employment Law Legislation. I am assuming that they may have had quite a significant financial impact on the Club's finances during the Pandemic to avoid any Court Proceedings that would have inevitably happened particularly when the Unions and Solicitor become involved.

It became obvious something was very wrong, particularly when both the Press and Scottish Politicians were highlighting concerns about the regime running the club. Suffice to say a group of concerned and proactive Owners took action to protect the Club and organised a democratic AGM resulting in a new Committee being voted into place. This Committee have worked tirelessly since to sort out the mess left and I think are only now untangling the Finances and found a large deficit in the Club's finances that has long been hidden from owners by previous Committees. So let's not 'shoot the Messengers' (ie new Committee) for being open and honest with owners, it was earlier Committees who were the actual persons who pulled the 'stunt' or rather pulled the wool over the owners eyes assisted in part by owners who gave the Chair their proxy Vote rather than taking an active interest to ensure the Club was being running properly.

With many Units still desperately needing refurbishment, the Maintenance Fees can't possibly be stretched to complete the Refurbishment programme. In past decades when finances have been getting low, an additional Top Up Fee has been made, therefore there is a precedent for this, but granted it is unfortunate it happens at this time of a Pandemic when many families are having to tighten their 'belts'.
By all means moan about the money being requested, but let's not lay the blame at the new Committees feet.
Ronnie Robertson

I accept that fault doesn't lie with the present committee, however, some discussion first would have been appropriate. Until all the facts are laid out for all owners to understand what went wrong, there will be doubts held.

I would not be surprised if existing committee don't know what has went wrong.
There was so much missing in accounts of previous years which were highlighted by a few but missed by the many.
In my opinion it would be extremely difficult and time consuming to unravel the financial mysteries of past 6/ 7 years, but this committee are working their way through it, it would appear and hopefully will eradicate the doubts.

Good morning. With reference to Mr. Lamont's comment about 'much missing in the Accounts of previous years', what exactly were the Club's appointed Auditors doing amidst ' the financial mysteries of the past 6/7 years'? The Club Members were paying hefty Fees to the Accountants and Auditors, so were they hoodwinking the Committee Members?Misinforming them? Massaging figures? Not doing their job properly? Surely the UK Body for overseeing Accountants and Auditors should now be alerted to the fact that there are 'financial mysteries' overseen by the Accountants and Auditors who were employed by the Committee/Club Members in these years?
Perhaps this is already in hand and part of ongoing investigations by our current Committee Members, who at last seem to have got a handle on these thorny issues? Of course if this is the case, they may not be able to reveal everything happening behind the scenes.
Despite the necessary hike in Management Fees this year, we have to remember that Owners haven't been paying out big fees for the almost twenty years that we've owned Rannoch Lodges. Several other Timeshare Owners at UK and European Resorts we've met during these years, have been tearing their hair out about huge annual rises in their Fees and been desperate to get out of their Ownerships.
Sorry to repeat what we've said before, but let's give our current Committee Members the chance to get on with what they're doing, because they at last appear to be working together and making positive strides forward. We Owners to capitalise on their hard work and commitment, whilst being thankful that the Hotel is being renovated and has reopened - it will revitalise our Lodges and increase their value. Our thanks to Committee Members for being willing to stand up, face the issues and reality, make some hard decisions and face the inevitable flack from some Owners. We appreciate what you're doing.

Sorry but i do agree with most of the initial comment. Despite asking several times about the expected increase in fees and addition of Leisure Facility fees there was nothing forthcoming until the invoices were sent out (i had to ask for mine). I was told the staff were not told what the committee had decided until the invoices were prepared - this is not being open about things !!! I have asked before who is actually running the club - if it is the committee why do we have a General Manager (who i expect is earning a pretty penny). If the Committee are running the show on behalf of the owners - perhaps the owners should be kept in the loop a little more. Personally I feel we are being kept like the proverbial mushrooms again. The Committee may well be doing a very good job - if so tell us about it. If the Club Finances were so bad - indeed WHY was this not picked up by the Accountants/Auditors. Both my daughter in law and I are Accountants (in totally different sectors) and would be horrified if the apparent depth of the problems were missed or worse some sort of cover up - in which case this should be taken further and someone be held accountable.

On a totally personal issue, we arrived last night having just received our latest fee invoice - to find things less than acceptable. Dirty mugs in the cupboards - horrified does not even cover it !!!!

Karen

Well said!

Sorry, most of my last post was eaten for some reason. Trying again!


PLEASE - let's give our new committee a chance. They are working astonishingly long hours investigating the problems at the club and getting things up and running in some very trying circumstances, not the least of is the ongoing covid situation. I have even had conversations near midnight with some people.


For those unhappy with the leisure charge - for many years we've had feedback from our own visitors that "the place is lovely but there's nothing much to do, and nothing for older kids especially".  This actually lost me two sales for one of my weeks, as they bought at another resort instead. £30 for a week is really not much whether you have 4 or 8 people staying. I appreciate that not everyone will use the facilities (I won't as I'm disabled) but we need to take a long term view for the club membership as a whole. It's been discussed many times that we have an aging membership, many of whom cannot use their lodges now. Surely the availability of what is a pretty wide variety of facilities will make the club much more attractive and boost rentals and sales? While we're stuck with in perpetuity we need to look at every possible way to help owners rent or sell.


I've also noticed that a few people have mentioned on this and elsewhere that their lodges haven't been clean on entry. I know housekeeping staff must be under a lot of pressure as covid standard cleaning must take a lot longer, but lack of cleaning is not acceptable especially these days. That must be given top priority. 

It is really irritating that for example, previous occupants have put dirty cups back into cupboards, or left dirty dishes in the machine. It doesn't excuse the lack of detail in the cleaning but why on earth would someone not clear the place up before they leave? We always make sure its clean and tidy before we go.

This is printed on the bottom of my invoice.

"We understand and will exercise our statutory right to claim interest and compensation for debt recovery costs
under the late payment legislation if the invoice is not paid according to agreed credit terms."

Would someone tell me where this power comes from? I do not have an up to date copy of the Constitution. I suspect no other member does either.

Hi,
My issue with the increases in management fees and the imposition of a leisure fee is slightly different.

I cannot comment on the clubs need to build up reserves (although I share others reservations) and I agree wholeheartedly with the need for leisure facilities, however, my issues are with whether both charges are constitutional and lawfull. That is to say, whether the club is within it's rights to levy a second management fee and a mandatory fee for leisure facilities.

In accordance with my reservations, I have writtent to the club (copied to the committee) in the following terms...

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 1st July 2021 and the attached maintenance fee Invoice.

I note your comments and accept the need for an increase in in the annual maintenance fees. There are, however, a few things in your letter that are causing me some concern and I would ask that you comment on the following questions.

1) I am concerned about the decision to levy an additional maintenance fee of 14%. Under which clause of the constitution is this additional fee levied? As far as I can see, the constitution only allows the raising of one maintenance fee in any one year and the levying of an additional fee is unconstitutional and possible unlawful.

2) Given the comment at (1) above, what would be the response of the club should any member decline to pay the additional fee. Section E1 of the constitution states ‘Each member of the club will pay an annual Maintenance Charge’. This is clearly a single charge and I would suggest that the club would have no right to deny access to the club to any member who declined to pay any additional charge or take action to recover it.

3) I am also concerned about the decision to charge a fee for leisure facilities. As far as I can see, the club has no mandate or right to negotiate charges for leisure facilities to be levied against all members. Could you please explain which clause in the constitution allows you to make this charge.

4) As at (2) above, what would be the clubs response should a member decline to pay the charge for leisure facilities.

Please note that I am not commenting on the need for the club to source additional funds, nor am I questioning whether it is desirable for members to have access to the leisure facilities. I am simply concerned that the club is acting outside the constitution and is, therefore, putting itself in an untenable and possibly unlawful position should it be challenged.

On the matter of the Leisure facilities, would you please let me know exactly what facilities are included free of charge in the deal negotiated with the hotel. Access to the hospitality side of the hotel is clearly not part of the deal because that is publicly available anyway. I would anticipate that things like hire of eBikes and boats would not be covered so a detailed list of what we are getting for our fee would be useful.

Hopefully, I will get a timely response and I will share it.

R. Frankham
Otter 1 Week 21

It is a feature of the Timeshare model that the "have not's" support the "haves" in terms of seasonal facilities. Just as a "for instance", in week 41 we are severely restricted for hill walking without risk of being shot instead of a stag. The upside of this is we don't have midgies!! Similar, with this leisure levy. We don't have the pleasure of using most of the summer facilities and as mid 70 year olds, we don't use the fitness centre( gymnasium). We do understand that others benefit from our payment, and that the club will be enhanced, so can those who benefit from "summer" help those of us who do not? In particular, I am thinking of my electricity bill which, weather dependent in October, can be 10% additional to my management fee. That would largely offset the leisure tax.

Since I made the mistake of buying a unit in 2004, without carrying out any form of due diligence, I have watched one committee after another come in after much blame and politicking, and do the same thing…blame the last lot.
When I questioned the new Committee on the Leisure fee and levy, I was informed that it was legal and I had no choice but to pay, other than an expensive legal route. This is all the information I need about the new committee.
New committee same as old committee.

Leisure Fees:
For the hotel to say that to deal with individual lodges is too onerous for them, and for the committee to immediately accept is pitiful; this was not a negotiation but a capitulation. If the hotel is unwilling to do this then the club should have…it’s a spreadsheet.
We are essentially providing the hotel with over £100, 000 in income, the vast majority of which they will not have to provide services for.

Are Lodge Owners to receive a rebate if for any reason the facilities are not available for use during their stay, whether this be due to maintenance issues or weather?

To claim that the committee have the power to enter into contracts necessary for the running of the club, such as maintenance works, etc, does not compare to a contract which has essentially increased the annual fee for all owners, whether they wish for, or perhaps cannot use the facility, or not. But it’s legal.

This should have been put to a vote.

Increase Management Fees:
I have no issues with a reasonable annual increase.

Management Levy:
Under any circumstance this is essentially an emergency power and for this committee to claim that at a time when many people are financially squeezed on the domestic front, the fact that the club doesn’t have enough contingency funds in the bank is an emergency, is frankly insulting… it’s okay if you can’t afford it up front though, you can pay by Direct Debit, which has an additional cost burden. But it’s legal.

This should have been put to a vote.

Lodge Sales:
During the recent fiasco with Retreat regarding rentals, I was directed to Ann at UKRE with regard to unit sales.
I have now been informed that UKRE are dealing only with sales of Club controlled weeks, owner’s weeks are still being “marketed” by the club.

Exit Routes:
What are they?
The voluntary surrender scheme leaves the committee open to accusation of preferential treatment due to the lack of transparency in the process and the subjectivity involved in the final decision.
Is there a 3 or 5 Year exit route? Do we have access to the unit within this period?
This is the one thing above all else that currently needs nailed down. And yes, I have a vested interest in the outcome of this point…as we all do.

Finally, let’s also be clear, the idea that this site will ever return to what some on the forums call the “halcyon days” of the early 80s needs to be closed down. This is not going to happen as the world has changed, get over it.

All of the above is my opinion of the current situation.

Good evening Mr Docherty
You are perhaps one of the more fortunate owners having bought into the Club at rock bottom 2004 prices as opposed to owners like myself who bought in at 'off plan' prices decades ago, as you have a greater chance of seeing the price you bought in at rising within a short period of time once owners/renters have access to all the new Activities. In 2021 families are looking for family friendly spa facilities/activities and Restaurants and even if an owner doesn't make use of the facilities themselves, they will enjoy the increase in value to their week and the prospect of it becoming saleable.

Having experienced the halcyon days of the Club and witnessed the deterioration in both the fabric of the properties and the amenities at the club due in part to poor Committee decisions that went unchallenged by far too many owners, I am astonished that you and other owners appear to have been totally unaware of all that took place at the Club in recent years, just a glance at the Accounts spoke volumes! It was only thanks to a group of concerned and proactive Business minded owners coming to the rescue of Club; Staff and organising a long overdue democratic AGM, that our new Committee was elected. It has been due to the new Committee that many owners have been able to have a holiday at Rannoch this year.

Therefore rather than castigating the new Committee for using their business experience to pull the Club back from the brink of closure; job loss, and protecting owners from the cost of Insolvency, owners should be saying 'Well done Committee! " particularly in respect of negotiating such a great Activities Contract with the new Hotel Owner for the daily cost to owners of only £1.75p for a two bedded unit and 75p per person for a 6 bedded unit, basically the cost of a cup of Tea or Coffee, whilst at the same time adding value to otherwise valueless weeks.

With much now to say about how the Club is being run, why not put yourself forward for a post on the Committee, as all you need is a great love for LRHC; a willingness to give of your personal/family time; business experience and energy, I am sure you would be an asset on the Committee.

Ronnie Robertson

Mr Robertson. If anyone has an opinion or indeed challenges the workings off the club your immediate reaction is to invite them to join the committee! Some people just want to be heard and not press ganged or called out,

Furthermore, your comments were welcomed to my plight of having a winter week. But to be perfectly clear the hotel owner can NOT guarantee, those promised facilities will be able to be used during my week, thus your coffee analogy goes down the drain for me personally.

So what am I paying for and as Mr Docherty asks, will there be a reimbursement if said facilities are not on offer?

With regard Mr. Robertson’s response to my post.

The price I, or anyone else, paid is irrelevant. But the mere fact that this was his response lays bare all of the issues.

The single week I own is available to anyone who wants it... for free, I will even pay the registration fee. I’m not trying to recoup.

What this committee has done with regard the leisure fee and levy, whether legal or not, and there seems to be a question over that, is unjustifiable without a vote. If the committee are so sure of their position, they should have the votes. All non-responders can be regarded as being in agreement. I will then quite ‘happily’ pay…by the way I have already paid my fees for the year, because I’m not having my name besmirched over this.

Let me also make it clear, I’m not against a fee for use of the hotel facilities, they’ve apparently spent a vast sum and are due a return from those who wish to use them. I am against the manner in which the committee has capitulated to the hotel’s demands without consultation of owners.

As far as volunteering for the committee goes, I applaud anyone who puts their head above the parapet, for the proper reasons. But being in that position, gives everyone who’s paying money a right to voice an opinion on decisions made by your group.

Good Morning Mr Docherty
I wonder if you would mind emailing me please regarding your lodge
Many thanks
karenkeggans@sky.com

I do apologise Mr Docherty, perhaps I didn't quite phrase my point correctly, I was merely attempting to point out that I, and many other original owners, would not recoup any of the original money invested purchasing their particular week, unless by some miracle the price of their Unit/week exceeded the original off plan sales price they paid, and for some weeks/units that was in excess of £10,000. Whereas in the past twenty years prices of Time Share Units at Rannoch have steadily fallen to the point one could purchase a week for sale on eBay between 99p and £99. Therefore it is obvious the value of weeks/units bought during this latter period would see an increase in value following completion of all the refurbishment of the Hotel and waterfront and of course access to the Spa and Activities programme, as opposed to original owners who paid 'top dollar' price.

Let me make it clear, due to health and age I did not put myself forward for a place on the Committee Member, but I applaud the present Committee who have taken on this Herculean task of sorting out the mess left by some on previous committees, and think owners should give them credit for what they have accomplished thus far, rather than castigating them particularly as some owners apparently do not fully understand the breadth of the remit of Committee Members as stated within LRHC's Constitution.
Ronnie Robertson

mr. bannon is absolutely correct, I am being charged for leisure facilities I will never use, and have not been given a choice
as to whether I wish to subscribe to these facilities..........DEMOCRACY IN ACTION !
I am subsidising those who will use the facilities.
It should have been dealt with on an individual basis between the hotel and lodge owner for the relevant week.
Very disappointed as I don't think the present committee have thought this through.

Well said Mr Bannon.