Hi members and committee.
I don’t know if you have read the latest newsletter regarding each lodge having to pay £25 per week to use the hotel facilities? Although I am sure we are all looking forward to seeing/using the refurbished hotel I thought a decision like this would be voted on by the members. I seem to remember that MacDonald Hotels put forward the same proposal and members voted against it as many said they would not use the facilities. My husband and I usually go to our lodge on our own and he would definitely not use any of the leisure facilities and I may use the pool once in the week. Personally I would prefer to pay as I go and as the club currently appears to be in trouble financially we need to be paying money into the club not the hotel.
What do others think?
Regards
Susan and Peter HL40 Wk36
Lodge owners paying to use hotel facilities
Over the years I've spoken to many owners and visitors to the lodges, as I have 3 weeks plus rent several extra lodges via the club for friends when we come up. The one overriding reason for them not wanting to return/bring family/buy a lodge was that there are no facilities, especially for the younger family members. This has also been brought up time and time again in discussion with various committees and management.
We've owned since the heyday of the 80s and it would be wonderful to see people using the full potential of the resort as a whole again.
I personally won't use the facilities but I am more than happy to pay the £25 if it helps rent out my weeks. If the club is to survive we must make it as attractive as possible to visitors and potential buyers. £25 seems a small price to pay to help achieve this (though I appreciate times are difficult financially for many people).
We've owned since the heyday of the 80s and it would be wonderful to see people using the full potential of the resort as a whole again.
I personally won't use the facilities but I am more than happy to pay the £25 if it helps rent out my weeks. If the club is to survive we must make it as attractive as possible to visitors and potential buyers. £25 seems a small price to pay to help achieve this (though I appreciate times are difficult financially for many people).
The payment of £25 is an investment for the future.
It will make lodges desirable and saleable/ rentable again for the first time in many years.
Personally I do not know if I will use the facilities when there, but as I see it and I would like to think many owners would think the same way, we need to attract the next generation of owners and a swimming pool,the marina etc will do just that.
If my £25 helps another owner enjoy their break it will be worthwhile.
It will make lodges desirable and saleable/ rentable again for the first time in many years.
Personally I do not know if I will use the facilities when there, but as I see it and I would like to think many owners would think the same way, we need to attract the next generation of owners and a swimming pool,the marina etc will do just that.
If my £25 helps another owner enjoy their break it will be worthwhile.
In light of the recent news bulletin should the Club not be calling for an extraordinary general meeting (EGM) to discuss what options people would like to pursue going forward?
I have looked for a copy of the recent AGM minutes and accounts but don’t seem able to find them. Can anyone please point me in the right direction?
If all the points mentioned in the news bulletin were discussed at the AGM I do apologise but can’t seem to find any information.
Thanks,
Neil Brundle
HL 38
wk 21
Worrying words of likely insolvency, surely this should be expanded on before any move forward. Especially paying future management fees. Are we throwing good money after bad? Is there a realistic viable solution going forward or is it time to consider other options.
On a personal note we welcome the greater interaction with the Hotel and this can only be a good thing in our opinion but is it too late?
I have looked for a copy of the recent AGM minutes and accounts but don’t seem able to find them. Can anyone please point me in the right direction?
If all the points mentioned in the news bulletin were discussed at the AGM I do apologise but can’t seem to find any information.
Thanks,
Neil Brundle
HL 38
wk 21
Worrying words of likely insolvency, surely this should be expanded on before any move forward. Especially paying future management fees. Are we throwing good money after bad? Is there a realistic viable solution going forward or is it time to consider other options.
On a personal note we welcome the greater interaction with the Hotel and this can only be a good thing in our opinion but is it too late?
Morning all.
Regarding the payment to use the hotel facilities, I hope I am wrong, but, on reading the newsletter, it is my interpretation that the price of £25.00 per unit is what would apply for a studio apartment. Further into the newsletter, it indicates that the facilities payment will be linked to the number of bedrooms or sleeping spaces. So for our2 bedroom lodge, I am suspecting I will be asked not for £25.00, but for either £50.00 or £75.00.
Read the letter again and see what you think.
Cheers
John martin
Otter 3, 28/29
Regarding the payment to use the hotel facilities, I hope I am wrong, but, on reading the newsletter, it is my interpretation that the price of £25.00 per unit is what would apply for a studio apartment. Further into the newsletter, it indicates that the facilities payment will be linked to the number of bedrooms or sleeping spaces. So for our2 bedroom lodge, I am suspecting I will be asked not for £25.00, but for either £50.00 or £75.00.
Read the letter again and see what you think.
Cheers
John martin
Otter 3, 28/29
Does the £25 (or more) payment cover the use of the restaurant and bars or just "Leisure facilities." Will Kinloch Rannoch residents be paying to use the bars and restaurant? If we get full use of leisure facilities presumably the exchange Coys. will reinstate us as full members?
The £25 mentioned is for cost of leisure facilities no matter the size of lodge.
The maintenance fee increase will be on the number of bedrooms it would appear, in addition to fee for leisure.
I also think the hotel and all facilities will be open to all on reading the presentation from AGM.
It should present loads of opportunities.
The maintenance fee increase will be on the number of bedrooms it would appear, in addition to fee for leisure.
I also think the hotel and all facilities will be open to all on reading the presentation from AGM.
It should present loads of opportunities.
Hi John. I have only just received the newsletter, after reading these posts, but i cannot see where it states that the £25 is for a Studio. Are you getting confused between this fee and the maintenance fee. Further on in the letter is talks about them looking in to a "fairer" system on maintenance fees, and maybe linking that to number of bedrooms.
Hi All.
Thanks for the opinions...
If an increase in fees is the issue, and the £25.00 is an annual fee per lodge, irrespective of size and sleeping spaces, then I would continue to be interested in the proposed new maintenance fees, since the current difference in fees already reflects a higher cost vis a vis the bigger the ‘unit’.
I don’t see the business case for the hotel to be charging the same for 2 people in a studio as a lodge with 8 possible people using their facilities?
Cheers
John Martin
Otter 3, 28/29
Thanks for the opinions...
If an increase in fees is the issue, and the £25.00 is an annual fee per lodge, irrespective of size and sleeping spaces, then I would continue to be interested in the proposed new maintenance fees, since the current difference in fees already reflects a higher cost vis a vis the bigger the ‘unit’.
I don’t see the business case for the hotel to be charging the same for 2 people in a studio as a lodge with 8 possible people using their facilities?
Cheers
John Martin
Otter 3, 28/29
Devils Advocate here John. 2 people in a studio using bar & restaurant facilities potentially provide less profit than a lodge of 8. Makes sense, then, as a business case, to charge the studio more????!!!! Opinion not necessarily that of the author.
This is not part of anything I agree to.
If the Hotel can't survive on merit attracting my custom then it goes broke. Big deal. I go to Rannoch not to eat in a subsidised canteen or health centre, but to relax.
NOT IN MY NAME!
Get real and stop soaking us because we can't get out of a usurious contract invented by a near fraudster in the70's. Words fail me - but only because the Anglo-Saxon ones I feel like using are very offensive.
I have offered to pay 3 years or 5 years "service charges" by return of post to exit this racket, but have been rebuffed. Why? Is it because the pyramid scheme would falter if anyone actually escaped?
If the Hotel can't survive on merit attracting my custom then it goes broke. Big deal. I go to Rannoch not to eat in a subsidised canteen or health centre, but to relax.
NOT IN MY NAME!
Get real and stop soaking us because we can't get out of a usurious contract invented by a near fraudster in the70's. Words fail me - but only because the Anglo-Saxon ones I feel like using are very offensive.
I have offered to pay 3 years or 5 years "service charges" by return of post to exit this racket, but have been rebuffed. Why? Is it because the pyramid scheme would falter if anyone actually escaped?
Going back to my original post. My understanding from the news letter is the £25 is to use the leisure facilities not to use the bars and restaurants, which I’m sure will be open to everyone. Also I think it is £25 per week regardless of how many people it sleeps. The increase in the maintenance fee will include the £25 hotel fee. The club fees needs to be increased anyway, otherwise there will be no club as it appears we on the brink of insolvency, which is very worrying. As far as I can see there was no agreement at the AGM for each unit to pay the hotel to use the leisure facilities. Thank you for responding as it’s useful hearing others thoughts. As we bought our lodge long after there were no facilities at the Highland Club it’s not something we were bothered about. We like it for the scenery, peace and great walking.
If the Club is really on the edge of going under - which is probably the case in the current pandemic recovery, then let's act sensibly to close it down in a controlled way. Pass a motion releasing all owners from the in-perpetuity ownership clauses and replace them with a 1 year only membership. This should mean that even when the club is put into receivership nobody can have their future sold to the highest bidder and be forever tied to unlimited payments. Every owner is limited to a £1.00 liability or a share of the profits on sale and that seems like the way to go forward.
I don't think that the committee we have now are at all to blame for our situation, but we are all rapidly looking at the black hole which boat owners recognise. We are throwing money into a lovely idea with no hope of recovering it and from my point of view we need to stop.
Subsidising the Hotel regardless of usage is immoral. I don't pay for electricity I don't use because it is voluntary. I do pay for education for children I don't have, but that is via mandatory taxation which is far from voluntary.
If the Loch Rannoch Hotel owners want my weeks they they can buy them from me for £1.00 each, but I am not in the market for their hotel or any part of it.
Please can we stop trying to shovel sand out of this pit?
I don't think that the committee we have now are at all to blame for our situation, but we are all rapidly looking at the black hole which boat owners recognise. We are throwing money into a lovely idea with no hope of recovering it and from my point of view we need to stop.
Subsidising the Hotel regardless of usage is immoral. I don't pay for electricity I don't use because it is voluntary. I do pay for education for children I don't have, but that is via mandatory taxation which is far from voluntary.
If the Loch Rannoch Hotel owners want my weeks they they can buy them from me for £1.00 each, but I am not in the market for their hotel or any part of it.
Please can we stop trying to shovel sand out of this pit?
As one of the original owners of a Lodge at Rannoch, I was fortunate enough to experience the halcyon days of the Club when it shared the use of the Hotels Leisure facilities; Restaurants and Bars. The new owner of the Hotel is attempting to reinstate all of these facilities at Rannoch, investing his own money to not only refurbish the Hotel but also the Spa Area and turning the Harbour/Jetty area into an additional leisure facility which LRHC Owners will have the opportunity to use. Therefore £25.00 seems a relative small amount given these new facilities would immediately add value to each week owned whether or not an owner chooses to make use of them, it will also make Rannoch week's more attractive to a new generation of owners and therefore easier to sell by existing owners who want 'out'.
It is somewhat disingenuous for Owners to be 'surprised' to learn that the Club is on the verge of insolvency. Not only have we had a Pandemic, but for far too many years various owners have voiced their concerns about the lack of transparency within the Club's Accounts and lack of professional Management experience of many on the Committee as Owners' Management Fees were squandered on 'Vanity Projects' and Kinloch Rannoch treated by some Chairpersons as their own personal fiefdom. However owners highlighting such things were accused of being 'trouble makers' or 'stirring things up' by a great many other Owners who chose to believe all they were being told rather than 'rock the boat'. It is therefore only now with a thankfully much more professional group of Owners on the Committee managing the Club, promising to be transparent with owners, and offering the true financial position of the Club following an investigation into the Club's Accounts, that we have it confirmed in black and white the Club is facing insolvency. But if owners who love their Rannoch week pull together and back fully this new Committee, who have worked so hard to try and get things back on track, then the halcyon days could return. But sacrifices maybe necessary, which means the great many owners, myself included, who missed out on their week's holiday at Rannoch, can be patient until the Club is in a more stable financial footing before the question of 'compensation' for lost weeks is agreed on, then not only will our Rannoch Weeks holidays be saved, but the livelihood of the many people we employ.
Ronnie Robertson
It is somewhat disingenuous for Owners to be 'surprised' to learn that the Club is on the verge of insolvency. Not only have we had a Pandemic, but for far too many years various owners have voiced their concerns about the lack of transparency within the Club's Accounts and lack of professional Management experience of many on the Committee as Owners' Management Fees were squandered on 'Vanity Projects' and Kinloch Rannoch treated by some Chairpersons as their own personal fiefdom. However owners highlighting such things were accused of being 'trouble makers' or 'stirring things up' by a great many other Owners who chose to believe all they were being told rather than 'rock the boat'. It is therefore only now with a thankfully much more professional group of Owners on the Committee managing the Club, promising to be transparent with owners, and offering the true financial position of the Club following an investigation into the Club's Accounts, that we have it confirmed in black and white the Club is facing insolvency. But if owners who love their Rannoch week pull together and back fully this new Committee, who have worked so hard to try and get things back on track, then the halcyon days could return. But sacrifices maybe necessary, which means the great many owners, myself included, who missed out on their week's holiday at Rannoch, can be patient until the Club is in a more stable financial footing before the question of 'compensation' for lost weeks is agreed on, then not only will our Rannoch Weeks holidays be saved, but the livelihood of the many people we employ.
Ronnie Robertson
Agreed!
Spend money wisely. Get the club properly incorporated and work out how to close it so that it cannot be made a phoenix revival after the fact with all of us paying again. The 3 previous owners have treated us all as a golden goose collectively. We must ensure that if there is any buyout each owner is given the chance to sell their week and entire liability for it rather than having their liability to pay sold only.
That would be worth several thousands of pounds as an investment in a worry free future for all owners.
Spend money wisely. Get the club properly incorporated and work out how to close it so that it cannot be made a phoenix revival after the fact with all of us paying again. The 3 previous owners have treated us all as a golden goose collectively. We must ensure that if there is any buyout each owner is given the chance to sell their week and entire liability for it rather than having their liability to pay sold only.
That would be worth several thousands of pounds as an investment in a worry free future for all owners.
I’ve owned at Lochside since they were built when the facilities at the resort were excellent. We also own 5 weeks of timeshares in the USA and elsewhere. Only one offers any limited compensation for unused weeks due to pandemics.
£25 for use of the hotel facilities seems a bargain. I may not use them but they should allow participation in exchanges. Rannoch in the 80s was magical , a top rated resort with a range of services , which allowed activities as well as retreat features. Few, if any , highland resorts can survive on walkers and hikers only, other than backpackers offerings nothing like the facilities of Loch Rannoch. The current fees are well below those I pay at other Scottish timeshares.
I would have thought any talk of insolvency merits an EGM , I’d like to know what the cost of avoiding liquidation is before action is taken. We have had to bail out in the past, the e mail recently sent offers no information as to likely bail out costs.or when we will be updated on the finances. Are we technically bankrupt now or is it impending. We need a timetable not a commitment to transparency with no route map.
The “in perpetuity” aspect of timeshare ownership was sold as a selling point versus leasehold arrangements in the 80s , buy out options should now be possible to improve cash flow, as should vigorously pursuing fee defaults.
DMcLaughlan lochside 4
£25 for use of the hotel facilities seems a bargain. I may not use them but they should allow participation in exchanges. Rannoch in the 80s was magical , a top rated resort with a range of services , which allowed activities as well as retreat features. Few, if any , highland resorts can survive on walkers and hikers only, other than backpackers offerings nothing like the facilities of Loch Rannoch. The current fees are well below those I pay at other Scottish timeshares.
I would have thought any talk of insolvency merits an EGM , I’d like to know what the cost of avoiding liquidation is before action is taken. We have had to bail out in the past, the e mail recently sent offers no information as to likely bail out costs.or when we will be updated on the finances. Are we technically bankrupt now or is it impending. We need a timetable not a commitment to transparency with no route map.
The “in perpetuity” aspect of timeshare ownership was sold as a selling point versus leasehold arrangements in the 80s , buy out options should now be possible to improve cash flow, as should vigorously pursuing fee defaults.
DMcLaughlan lochside 4
For too many years we as owners have either been hoodwinked by previous committees into believing all was well when patently it was not or we didn't even bother to attend AGMs etc to ask the questions or find out. We, as your new committee, were rather shocked when we found out the state of the finances but we are NOT in dire straits. In an attempt to be open and honest to all Maureen put out the newsletter which was intended as a general reply to the Owners who threatened to withhold their management fees, because they hadn't been able to use their weeks last year or earlier this year, that without all Owners paying their fees we would be in danger of becoming insolvent, it wasn't intended to be read that we are insolvent, because we are not. There isn't as much money in the bank as we'd like but if we can keep costs down and if all Owners pay their fees then hopefully by next year we will be on the up again. Remember that all on the committee are owners too, none of us want the club to fail, we are working to improve things for ourselves and every other owner. We as a committee are working on many ways to improve things from gradually replacing the "In perpetuity" millstone, to the selling of Club owned weeks, replacing lost weeks as soon as we can and making the ownership of a week at Loch Rannoch more attractive via the joint Leisure package with the Hotel. Even if you don't use the package yourself, your week suddenly become a better deal if you chose to sell or rent out your week. Quite a number of Owners never use their weeks here at the resort but either exchange to faraway shores or make a bit extra money by renting out at more than they pay in fees. Ron Benson
Dear Mr. Benson, as far as I am concerned, the present committee are not even suspects but every previous committee, since McDonalds, has been found guilty. THEY all said " We are owners too........" and have taken us nowhere except downwards in the last 15 years or so. I have advocated the employment of a professional Timeshare management company from day 1 and until we get one we will lurch from crisis to crisis.. I have first hand experience of what a professional management company can do, in Spain. We owned 2 weeks at a "Corpse" resort when we bought out the existing management and it is now one of the best on the Costas. However nothing you, nor any committee, can do is make timeshare valuable. It is a Global problem and 1 resort will never change that. I will continue to support you and the resort but it will never, in my opinion, be anything other than an increasingly expensive "week away". Fred
We and other friends who have Lodges think £25 is a very reasonable amount for access to the the Hotel and facilities. We believe that the Committee have made the right call, because this move is going to make LRHC so much more inviting to potential new Owners and Renters. We must remember that not all Hotels are open to non-residents, so cannot assume that the Rannoch Hotel would be open to Lodge Owners (although it would lose a lot of income if they didn't welcome us!). Like many Owners we bought into LRHC for the Lodge, scenery and tranquility but if the Hotel enhances our Club then this is fantastic!
Yes apparently it is £25 working out at just over £6 per person for the week in a six bedded Highland lodge to use all of the Leisure facilities like the pool; gym; sauna; ect and to have a smart looking water front area with tennis court; bike and boat hire facilities, hopefully regaining LRHC's 5 Star Time Share status that we lost years ago and putting an end to Bargain Basement sale prices. The Committee have done well to negotiate such a deal for owners who are in a win win situation whether like myself too long in the tooth to make use of all the Leisure facilities, but wise enough to realise access to on-site Leisure facilities immediately adds a lot more than £25 in value to each week owned. So a BIG thank you to this Committee!
Ronnie Robertson
Ronnie Robertson
Hello Mr Waddingham,
I agree with you about a professional Management Company taking over the running of LRHC as the present Committee have had to use so much of their personal time to get the Club back on track, I can quite appreciate they may be unable to keep this dedication up in the longer term which may result in a future new Committee ruining their sterling work. I think in a year or so with the Hotel up and running we should be able to see how well that has worked out and if successful perhaps approach their Management to see if they would consider managing LRHC.
I'm intrigued by the name of the Resort where you own a Timeshare in Spain, 'Corpse' pretty unusual name or a typo error?
Ronnie Robertson
I agree with you about a professional Management Company taking over the running of LRHC as the present Committee have had to use so much of their personal time to get the Club back on track, I can quite appreciate they may be unable to keep this dedication up in the longer term which may result in a future new Committee ruining their sterling work. I think in a year or so with the Hotel up and running we should be able to see how well that has worked out and if successful perhaps approach their Management to see if they would consider managing LRHC.
I'm intrigued by the name of the Resort where you own a Timeshare in Spain, 'Corpse' pretty unusual name or a typo error?
Ronnie Robertson
Hello Mr. Robertson, Very apt Description!! Club Delta Mar, Riviera Del Sol. It was dead and had no exchange value until a "Concerned Owners Group" mobilised the owners. A meeting was held at the Winter Gardens, Blackpool and the buy out was given the go ahead. At no extra cost to the owners the resort was totally refurbished, expanded and enhanced. At one particular AGM of that group, great scorn was poured onto the owners of a Scottish resort which had just succumbed to a demand by their management company for approx £400-£500 extra to fund refurbishment at that resort. Ring any bells???
https://www.crownresorts.com/resorts/club-delta-mar
https://www.crownresorts.com/resorts/club-delta-mar
Pleased to hear things worked out so well at Club Delta Mar (and with a more livelier name than 'Corpse' lol).
Let's hope in the future we can secure a similar success story at LRHC with a fully refurbished 'Resort' back up to its original 5 star Gold Crown status and run by a Management Company, enabling the present Committee members to just enjoy a relaxing holiday at Rannoch.
Ronnie Robertson
Let's hope in the future we can secure a similar success story at LRHC with a fully refurbished 'Resort' back up to its original 5 star Gold Crown status and run by a Management Company, enabling the present Committee members to just enjoy a relaxing holiday at Rannoch.
Ronnie Robertson
We have owned our lodge since 2009 and in that time we have seen a massive improvement in both the lodge and surroundings. I seem to remember after having to pay over £1 million to Mac Donald’s so we could separate from them because our fees were being used to maintain the hotel and not the lodges. We then then employed a professional management company who did very little but charged a fortune, again we paid a large sum to terminate their contract. Both of these cases also involved legal fees too do we really want to go back down either of these roads? I do not think the club will ever provide the quality or level of service early members had when it first opened. Life has changed and people want different things now.
I have just returned from a stay at the hotel and it is still a building site. They can’t get materials and are now saying the pool and spa will not be open until mid September. There are containers and rubble at the front of the hotel. They are hoping the marina will be open in 4-5 weeks time but that’s not definite either, again it’s a building site. This years invoice has now arrived and the leisure facilities fee is now £30 not £25 as we were told. We don’t know if this is the cost every year or if it will increase as we haven’t been told what the committee have agreed with the hotel. We were told while there that the hotel needs to get money in to move on to the next refurbishment phase and it looks like we are providing that and we can’t even use the facilities because they are not finished. I’m not criticising the committee as they are trying their best and are not being paid but we need an EGM so members can be included.
I have just returned from a stay at the hotel and it is still a building site. They can’t get materials and are now saying the pool and spa will not be open until mid September. There are containers and rubble at the front of the hotel. They are hoping the marina will be open in 4-5 weeks time but that’s not definite either, again it’s a building site. This years invoice has now arrived and the leisure facilities fee is now £30 not £25 as we were told. We don’t know if this is the cost every year or if it will increase as we haven’t been told what the committee have agreed with the hotel. We were told while there that the hotel needs to get money in to move on to the next refurbishment phase and it looks like we are providing that and we can’t even use the facilities because they are not finished. I’m not criticising the committee as they are trying their best and are not being paid but we need an EGM so members can be included.
Somewhat disingenuous to say the Hotel is a building site, a great many other guests stayed at the Hotel last week and the amount of work Nick Pattie and his Team have completed, considering there has been a Pandemic, is nothing short of miraculous! One only has to look at all the positive comments on Trip Advisor. Two Restaurants and the Brownie Pub/Restaurant already opened; outdoor eating/drinking area up and running; bedrooms refurbished as has all the main communal areas.
The Waterfront is almost completed and will be in use by end August/September with Paddle Boarding; Canoeing; Gym; Tennis Court; Climbing Wall. The Electric bikes are already in place.
Yes there are pallets of bricks on the access road for use on the extension to the Swimming Pool and new Spa Area, but I didn't see any Hotel guests or Owners being in any way inconvenienced by that. Nick Pattie is trying to ensure that even this area is completed by October, turning the Hotel and Resort into the type of all year long Holiday destination that present and future generations are looking for. The Rannoch Ceilidhs will be brought back plus other evening entertainment, all will be open to LRHC owners. Considering the Hotel (and our Club) were only reopened in June under strict Covid regulations, it's amazing how quickly they have hit the ground running.
The prospects for our Club are looking good and hopefully it will be back on track to receive 5 Star Status again thanks to the negotiating skills of our new Committee.
Ronnie Robertson
The Waterfront is almost completed and will be in use by end August/September with Paddle Boarding; Canoeing; Gym; Tennis Court; Climbing Wall. The Electric bikes are already in place.
Yes there are pallets of bricks on the access road for use on the extension to the Swimming Pool and new Spa Area, but I didn't see any Hotel guests or Owners being in any way inconvenienced by that. Nick Pattie is trying to ensure that even this area is completed by October, turning the Hotel and Resort into the type of all year long Holiday destination that present and future generations are looking for. The Rannoch Ceilidhs will be brought back plus other evening entertainment, all will be open to LRHC owners. Considering the Hotel (and our Club) were only reopened in June under strict Covid regulations, it's amazing how quickly they have hit the ground running.
The prospects for our Club are looking good and hopefully it will be back on track to receive 5 Star Status again thanks to the negotiating skills of our new Committee.
Ronnie Robertson
Mr Robertson
Are you able to clarify and give assurances that all the facilities provided by the hotel will be able to be used in week (1 ) as previous trips during this week only highlighted the locality in near shut down. In addition, in the month of January I can't see a great need for water sports use at the Marina!
Are you able to clarify and give assurances that all the facilities provided by the hotel will be able to be used in week (1 ) as previous trips during this week only highlighted the locality in near shut down. In addition, in the month of January I can't see a great need for water sports use at the Marina!
Hi Mr Bannon,
I am a LRHC owner like you therefore can offer you no reassurances on anything about the Club or the Hotel, but I'm sure if you email Nick Pattie direct at the Hotel he may give you a clearer idea. A great many remote Hotels in the Highland and Islands close from New Year until March because of the extreme weather conditions and blocked roads, so perhaps even Nick Pattie can't offer you certainty, as it will be weather dependant however much he may wish to remain open.
If I'm honest, I've never understood why anyone would buy a week at Rannoch between January and mid March, as beautiful as it might look, it must experience extremely low temperatures and the chance of roads being closed by ice or snow drifts is high, plus the cost of heating the Lodge must be exorbitant Have you considered depositing your week into a Timeshare Exchange Company enabling you to request an exchange week at Rannoch further into the year? Anne Blyth, another owner, might be able to assist you.
It seems to me that it would make sense for January/February owned weeks to be exchanged on a permanent basis for 'empty' weeks that the Club holds/owns later in the year, and the Club completely closed down for 8 weeks. Perhaps a group of local staff could be retained as a skeleton Maintenance Team keeping things turning over whilst also working on Refurbishing Units.
Ronnie Robertson
I am a LRHC owner like you therefore can offer you no reassurances on anything about the Club or the Hotel, but I'm sure if you email Nick Pattie direct at the Hotel he may give you a clearer idea. A great many remote Hotels in the Highland and Islands close from New Year until March because of the extreme weather conditions and blocked roads, so perhaps even Nick Pattie can't offer you certainty, as it will be weather dependant however much he may wish to remain open.
If I'm honest, I've never understood why anyone would buy a week at Rannoch between January and mid March, as beautiful as it might look, it must experience extremely low temperatures and the chance of roads being closed by ice or snow drifts is high, plus the cost of heating the Lodge must be exorbitant Have you considered depositing your week into a Timeshare Exchange Company enabling you to request an exchange week at Rannoch further into the year? Anne Blyth, another owner, might be able to assist you.
It seems to me that it would make sense for January/February owned weeks to be exchanged on a permanent basis for 'empty' weeks that the Club holds/owns later in the year, and the Club completely closed down for 8 weeks. Perhaps a group of local staff could be retained as a skeleton Maintenance Team keeping things turning over whilst also working on Refurbishing Units.
Ronnie Robertson
Mr Robertson,
Firstly I would like to thank you for all the time you give up voluntarily on the committee. However, I find your response to Mr Bannon and your reference to anyone that has bought a week between January and March very disappointing for a committee member.
We have swapped our weeks to go in December where there is very little difference in weather to Jan and Feb. As for the cost of our electric, yes it was considerably more expensive but no dearer than going out for a family meal and the experience of Rannoch in the winter was magical and worth the cost. The winter walking on the fells was fantastic! Surely it would be better for people to occupy these weeks to keep the units heated and functional?
On the point of the Hotel being accessible in these months I would have thought that that would bring an extra incentive for people to go where they know there is a retreat on your doorstep for a warming drink in front of the real fire or a heartening meal after a walk on the hills. I'm sure the hotel will strive to stay open in these months as does the most of Scotland for people that like winter breaks.
Comments on closing down the timeshare for 8 weeks on the forum, albeit your own personnel opinion should not be aired as a committee member in my personnel opinion. I think Mr Bannon has being very reserved in his reply.
Firstly I would like to thank you for all the time you give up voluntarily on the committee. However, I find your response to Mr Bannon and your reference to anyone that has bought a week between January and March very disappointing for a committee member.
We have swapped our weeks to go in December where there is very little difference in weather to Jan and Feb. As for the cost of our electric, yes it was considerably more expensive but no dearer than going out for a family meal and the experience of Rannoch in the winter was magical and worth the cost. The winter walking on the fells was fantastic! Surely it would be better for people to occupy these weeks to keep the units heated and functional?
On the point of the Hotel being accessible in these months I would have thought that that would bring an extra incentive for people to go where they know there is a retreat on your doorstep for a warming drink in front of the real fire or a heartening meal after a walk on the hills. I'm sure the hotel will strive to stay open in these months as does the most of Scotland for people that like winter breaks.
Comments on closing down the timeshare for 8 weeks on the forum, albeit your own personnel opinion should not be aired as a committee member in my personnel opinion. I think Mr Bannon has being very reserved in his reply.
Hello Mr Brundle,
Firstly, I think Mr Bannon fully read and understood my post, particularly as I stated in the opening paragraph in response to a question he had asked me "I am an owner like you and can offer no reassurances about either the Club or the Hotel" I have him a suggestion he may wish to consider. At no point on any posts have I ever said I was on the Committee, quite the contrary I have made a point of saying that I am an owner, albeit one of the original owners since the Club was first opened. I therefore like some other owners remember the halcyon days of the club and even way back then Owners of Winter Weeks, bought at a much lower cost than mid or high season weeks, would find themselves unable to reach Rannoch due to heavy snowfall and road closures which was part and parcel of the risk they took in purchasing off season weeks, hence the lower market price. December, strangely is not generally the coldest month or experiences the deadly situation of black ice followed by snowfall which can be lethal. I actually commented in my post if you review it, that Rannoch during these months can look very beautiful, however as much as Nick Pattie, like many other Highland Hotel proprietors, may wish to remain open during January/February, it is weather dependant, and if guests can't reach the Hotel Mr Pattie isn't going to retain staff on full salary for an empty Hotel.
the point I was making being the age profile of Owners like myself being on the higher end of the scale, the Club/Committee shall need to think 'out of the box' to make it financially viable for the Club to continue, and if less and less off-season weeks are being used by their elderly owners, and continue to be unattractive to new younger family owners as they are within Term-time and the weather can be unpredictable at best and extreme at worse, then one possible solution might be to use these winter weeks as a 'Maintenance period' retaining a skeleton staff, exchanging Winter Weeks for club owned Autumn/Spring weeks.
The whole point of an Owners' Forum is to enable owners to share their ideas and experiences, and Mr Bannon, like most other owners, seems to have understood this.
I look forward to reading your suggestions for making the Club more financially viable.
Ronnie Robertson
Firstly, I think Mr Bannon fully read and understood my post, particularly as I stated in the opening paragraph in response to a question he had asked me "I am an owner like you and can offer no reassurances about either the Club or the Hotel" I have him a suggestion he may wish to consider. At no point on any posts have I ever said I was on the Committee, quite the contrary I have made a point of saying that I am an owner, albeit one of the original owners since the Club was first opened. I therefore like some other owners remember the halcyon days of the club and even way back then Owners of Winter Weeks, bought at a much lower cost than mid or high season weeks, would find themselves unable to reach Rannoch due to heavy snowfall and road closures which was part and parcel of the risk they took in purchasing off season weeks, hence the lower market price. December, strangely is not generally the coldest month or experiences the deadly situation of black ice followed by snowfall which can be lethal. I actually commented in my post if you review it, that Rannoch during these months can look very beautiful, however as much as Nick Pattie, like many other Highland Hotel proprietors, may wish to remain open during January/February, it is weather dependant, and if guests can't reach the Hotel Mr Pattie isn't going to retain staff on full salary for an empty Hotel.
the point I was making being the age profile of Owners like myself being on the higher end of the scale, the Club/Committee shall need to think 'out of the box' to make it financially viable for the Club to continue, and if less and less off-season weeks are being used by their elderly owners, and continue to be unattractive to new younger family owners as they are within Term-time and the weather can be unpredictable at best and extreme at worse, then one possible solution might be to use these winter weeks as a 'Maintenance period' retaining a skeleton staff, exchanging Winter Weeks for club owned Autumn/Spring weeks.
The whole point of an Owners' Forum is to enable owners to share their ideas and experiences, and Mr Bannon, like most other owners, seems to have understood this.
I look forward to reading your suggestions for making the Club more financially viable.
Ronnie Robertson
Re the thread about owning a week between January and March. My week is in June and there’s a good reason for that , eg the probable weather.
I lived and worked outdoors in Rannoch before LRHC was even built and I remember only too well the severe winter weather and all that goes with it.
Others may prefer to stay at that time of year so it’s everyone to their own.
On another note, I’m confident that the current Committee are doing everything humanly possible to resolve the numerous logistical and financial issues which they have inherited.
They are unpaid volunteers with their own lives to lead and yet they are all putting in many hours each day in an effort to make things better for all at LRHC.
I lived and worked outdoors in Rannoch before LRHC was even built and I remember only too well the severe winter weather and all that goes with it.
Others may prefer to stay at that time of year so it’s everyone to their own.
On another note, I’m confident that the current Committee are doing everything humanly possible to resolve the numerous logistical and financial issues which they have inherited.
They are unpaid volunteers with their own lives to lead and yet they are all putting in many hours each day in an effort to make things better for all at LRHC.
Hi, the leisure facilities should be based on the number of beds per unit, not a flat fee. From what I understand from the letter that accompanied my invoice. Irrespective of how many people can be accommodated in each unit the price is the same, £25 + VAT.
In summary, those owners who own a sleeps 2 unit pay the same as Eagle, Osprey & Grouse, which I believe sleep 8.
How can this be fair?
Surely, a more fair and sensible solution would be to charge on a per capita basis.
In summary, those owners who own a sleeps 2 unit pay the same as Eagle, Osprey & Grouse, which I believe sleep 8.
How can this be fair?
Surely, a more fair and sensible solution would be to charge on a per capita basis.
I feel that the additional leisure charge should not be applied to every unit without the prior agreement of owners.
I have stayed at other timeshare complexes with an independent hotel and, as part of the checking in process, was asked if I wanted to purchase a weeks access to the pool.
This seems a fairer system than expecting all owners to subsidise the hotel developments
I have stayed at other timeshare complexes with an independent hotel and, as part of the checking in process, was asked if I wanted to purchase a weeks access to the pool.
This seems a fairer system than expecting all owners to subsidise the hotel developments
As a Kinloch Rannoch Resident, I do not have to pay to use the bars and restaurants.I can say from recent (post opening) experience that members using the club will not have to do so... in fact, since the hotel bars and restaurants are open to the general public no one will. It's worth commenting, though, that the use isn't a right and the hotel could, for whatever reason, close the bars & etc. to non residents.
I'm quite sure that the £25.00 if for use of the pool and certain other facilities. I think the club should let members know exactly what facilities are covered by the fee, what additional services are available and what additional fees there are for those services. For example, the Hotel is currently hiring out Ebikes. Does the fee cover rental of a bike or does it just give acces to the hire facilities with the actual hire being at additional cost? More clarity is needed.
My main question really is "Can the club, within the terms of the club constitution, lawfully negotiate agreements that impose additional fees on all of the members?". This isn't a comment on the desirability of the facilities... that goes without saying... but a question about whether the committee is acting lawfully in this matter.
A comment from the committee would be desirable.
I'm quite sure that the £25.00 if for use of the pool and certain other facilities. I think the club should let members know exactly what facilities are covered by the fee, what additional services are available and what additional fees there are for those services. For example, the Hotel is currently hiring out Ebikes. Does the fee cover rental of a bike or does it just give acces to the hire facilities with the actual hire being at additional cost? More clarity is needed.
My main question really is "Can the club, within the terms of the club constitution, lawfully negotiate agreements that impose additional fees on all of the members?". This isn't a comment on the desirability of the facilities... that goes without saying... but a question about whether the committee is acting lawfully in this matter.
A comment from the committee would be desirable.
Regarding the £30 leisure facilities fee, I wholeheartedly agree with Mr Frankham in a thread he posted a few days ago. When a similar proposal was suggested by the MacDonald hotel, the members turned it down by a large majority. Now this committee has taken it on themselves to agree a deal without consulting the lodge owners and have even been applauded by some for being good negotiators! Is it legal within the constitution, I don’t know, but we need to hear from the committee what the agreement is. Life has taught us the more secretive something is, the more suspicious it is. How many years have we signed up for and is there any protection for the lodge owners so the cost does not increase year on year.
Nick Pattie is a business man with a large hotel to run. He has to turn a profit to satisfy investors and shareholders, so from his point of view if he can get the lodge owners to pay for the use of the leisure facilities, he would be crazy not to ‘do a deal’. When you look at the amount of money this is going to generate for the hotel, the amount is quite staggering.
There are 107 lodges, some of which are owned by the club and therefore will not be contributing. Let’s say there are 85% of the lodges owned by members, it could be more, it could be less. Therefore 91 lodges paying £30 per week equates to £2,730. As far as I remember, the lodges are only let out for 50 weeks of the year to allow for maintenance etc, so the figure for the year that the hotel receives from us is around £136,500. After five years that would be £682,500, so wouldn’t that money be better off in the coffers of the club? It would also give the pool and spa a good refurbishment for the hotel! These are ball park figures, but when you end up at the final figure, no wonder Nick Pattie wants us on board.
As Mr Frankham questioned the cost of the hire of the e-bikes, does the pool and spa come with free towels, robes etc. As far as I know, all spas provide these items at no extra cost.
When we walk through the club site, I don’t see a lot of people who would be queuing to use the climbing wall, gym or squash court.
What is the position with the parking? There are dozens of Loch Rannoch Hotel Parking signs that have sprung up. We were told a while ago that some of the land that these signs are on was ours.
Our lodge is in week 36, which is the first week that the £30 charge is being added to our invoice. This is when the full facilities are projected to be open, but having stayed at the hotel a couple of weeks ago, I can’t see any likelihood of the pool/spa being finished. As all developments are finding out, there are certain building materials that you can’t get and as we overheard this one is no exception Three days ago, I emailed the admin team who sent us the invoice to enquire that if the full facilities are not operational would I get our £30 refunded. As of today, we have not had a reply or even an acknowledgement.
Some members have also suggested that we acquire a management company to look after the club. We have been there, had atrocious service and had our fingers burned to buy our way out of the contract.
That is a lot of words for such a small problem, but we think the issues need to be addressed and ask that a committee member respond to ours and other members concerns.
We appreciate that being a committee member can be a poisoned chalice with a lot of unpaid work and a lot of grumbling members. We are not out to undermine or bash the committee, but feel we need more transparency on this and future issues.
Nick Pattie is a business man with a large hotel to run. He has to turn a profit to satisfy investors and shareholders, so from his point of view if he can get the lodge owners to pay for the use of the leisure facilities, he would be crazy not to ‘do a deal’. When you look at the amount of money this is going to generate for the hotel, the amount is quite staggering.
There are 107 lodges, some of which are owned by the club and therefore will not be contributing. Let’s say there are 85% of the lodges owned by members, it could be more, it could be less. Therefore 91 lodges paying £30 per week equates to £2,730. As far as I remember, the lodges are only let out for 50 weeks of the year to allow for maintenance etc, so the figure for the year that the hotel receives from us is around £136,500. After five years that would be £682,500, so wouldn’t that money be better off in the coffers of the club? It would also give the pool and spa a good refurbishment for the hotel! These are ball park figures, but when you end up at the final figure, no wonder Nick Pattie wants us on board.
As Mr Frankham questioned the cost of the hire of the e-bikes, does the pool and spa come with free towels, robes etc. As far as I know, all spas provide these items at no extra cost.
When we walk through the club site, I don’t see a lot of people who would be queuing to use the climbing wall, gym or squash court.
What is the position with the parking? There are dozens of Loch Rannoch Hotel Parking signs that have sprung up. We were told a while ago that some of the land that these signs are on was ours.
Our lodge is in week 36, which is the first week that the £30 charge is being added to our invoice. This is when the full facilities are projected to be open, but having stayed at the hotel a couple of weeks ago, I can’t see any likelihood of the pool/spa being finished. As all developments are finding out, there are certain building materials that you can’t get and as we overheard this one is no exception Three days ago, I emailed the admin team who sent us the invoice to enquire that if the full facilities are not operational would I get our £30 refunded. As of today, we have not had a reply or even an acknowledgement.
Some members have also suggested that we acquire a management company to look after the club. We have been there, had atrocious service and had our fingers burned to buy our way out of the contract.
That is a lot of words for such a small problem, but we think the issues need to be addressed and ask that a committee member respond to ours and other members concerns.
We appreciate that being a committee member can be a poisoned chalice with a lot of unpaid work and a lot of grumbling members. We are not out to undermine or bash the committee, but feel we need more transparency on this and future issues.
As an owner who frequently voices his thoughts on this Forum, I welcome ROW L100 voicing his/her's, it's helpful to hear other owner's thoughts, I just wished they had voiced them over the past five or so years, we might be in a much healthier financial position.
I find it astonishing that there are owners who can't quite appreciate the 'value' of having access to extensive Leisure Facilities right on our doorstep brings to the Club, and in no small way to each owner. Up to the present, our weeks held no value, whether in attempting to sell them; exchange them or indeed rent them out; added to the fact that our Club's reputation was trashed during the Pandemic by the outrageous activities of some on the previous Committee, the Press coverage alone drew a sharp intake of breath from owners and staff alike, with the Club's Solicitor deluged with letters of concern, even Local Politicians and the Deputy First Minister of Scotland apparently raised their concerns. By the time the remains of the Committee were 'requested' to leave Kinloch Rannoch, LRHC's was left in chaos and on the verge of total collapse, the Accounts apparently long a work of Fiction which had been flagged up for years by concerned owners, and shouted down by others who refused to listen or see the writing on the wall for far too long, and only now pricking up their ears to the sorry state of affairs. This new Committee of Business Owners have used their Business experience and knowledge to dig us out of this hole at no little cost to themselves and their families, concentrating all their time and energy to get the Club up and running so that owners like you or I could have a much needed holiday, is it any wonder they had precious little time or energy left to answer questions.
Owners democratically voted each member onto the Committee to make decisions and sign Contracts on their behalf, therefore they have the Constitutional right to make such decisions and for once, in a very long time, they have managed to add value to every week owned by signing off on this Leisure Contract. As opposed to the cost each owner may have incurred if faced with having to finance the Club's closure.
One would be pretty naive indeed if you didn't appreciate that in 2021, to the younger generation Gyms; Spa and Leisure Facilities are part and parcel of their Lifestyle and it is this generation we need to attract into the Club for future investment in Sales; Rentals and Exchanges; so let's not lack imagination and be so set in our ways that we can't see this opportunity that is right there in front of our noses for a mere £25 per unit/week owned, that works out at roughly £1.75 per person per day in a one bedded unit and approx 75p per person per day in a 3 bedded unit, you would be charged more for a cup of tea or a coffee in most cafes.
to clarify, I am not on the Committee, I am an owner like everyone else on the Forum.
Ronnie Robertson
I find it astonishing that there are owners who can't quite appreciate the 'value' of having access to extensive Leisure Facilities right on our doorstep brings to the Club, and in no small way to each owner. Up to the present, our weeks held no value, whether in attempting to sell them; exchange them or indeed rent them out; added to the fact that our Club's reputation was trashed during the Pandemic by the outrageous activities of some on the previous Committee, the Press coverage alone drew a sharp intake of breath from owners and staff alike, with the Club's Solicitor deluged with letters of concern, even Local Politicians and the Deputy First Minister of Scotland apparently raised their concerns. By the time the remains of the Committee were 'requested' to leave Kinloch Rannoch, LRHC's was left in chaos and on the verge of total collapse, the Accounts apparently long a work of Fiction which had been flagged up for years by concerned owners, and shouted down by others who refused to listen or see the writing on the wall for far too long, and only now pricking up their ears to the sorry state of affairs. This new Committee of Business Owners have used their Business experience and knowledge to dig us out of this hole at no little cost to themselves and their families, concentrating all their time and energy to get the Club up and running so that owners like you or I could have a much needed holiday, is it any wonder they had precious little time or energy left to answer questions.
Owners democratically voted each member onto the Committee to make decisions and sign Contracts on their behalf, therefore they have the Constitutional right to make such decisions and for once, in a very long time, they have managed to add value to every week owned by signing off on this Leisure Contract. As opposed to the cost each owner may have incurred if faced with having to finance the Club's closure.
One would be pretty naive indeed if you didn't appreciate that in 2021, to the younger generation Gyms; Spa and Leisure Facilities are part and parcel of their Lifestyle and it is this generation we need to attract into the Club for future investment in Sales; Rentals and Exchanges; so let's not lack imagination and be so set in our ways that we can't see this opportunity that is right there in front of our noses for a mere £25 per unit/week owned, that works out at roughly £1.75 per person per day in a one bedded unit and approx 75p per person per day in a 3 bedded unit, you would be charged more for a cup of tea or a coffee in most cafes.
to clarify, I am not on the Committee, I am an owner like everyone else on the Forum.
Ronnie Robertson
Well done Ronnie! We totally agree with your comments! The Hotel and resources are already adding value to our Lodges and can only bring in more potential Owners and Renters. These kind of facilities are exactly what younger people and families want and if you don't want to rock climb, cycle, windsurf etc, you may choose to eat or drink in the Hotel and enjoy the Spa. If none of these, then we can all still be grateful that for £25/30 the Hotel no longer looks delapidated and run down! This was beginning to have a negative visual impact on our Club/Resort and could put some people off renting or buying Lodges. It is hard to believe what Mr. Pattie and Co. have achieved in under a year! It's only a year since we heard that the Hotel had been sold and the progress has been amazing. Hats off to him. Well done to the Committee for negotiating such a value-for-money deal with Nick Pattie!
Totally agree with the above posts. I hope the committee members aren't put off by the negativity of some owners on here. They have a ton of problems to sort out and they have made amazing progress so far. Working together with the hotel can only be a good thing for the club.
I have just returned from my week at the Club which was thoroughly enjoyable.
The hotel- yes it is still undergoing redevelopment, but once it is finished, we as owners will have so much more to enjoy and savour, for a small price which we as owners, will reap the benefits in many ways
The staff at the hotel are fantastic and the food is great too which again delivers a service we were sadly lacking for many years.
Belief and truth were in short supply for too long, but now we have it in abundance from the new members of this committee.
The hotel- yes it is still undergoing redevelopment, but once it is finished, we as owners will have so much more to enjoy and savour, for a small price which we as owners, will reap the benefits in many ways
The staff at the hotel are fantastic and the food is great too which again delivers a service we were sadly lacking for many years.
Belief and truth were in short supply for too long, but now we have it in abundance from the new members of this committee.
Stuart, did you try the Wild Brownie on the Pub's menu? What about one of the Whisky Flights? Certainly a winning combination after a long days fishing .... You could even pretend you caught the Brownie yourself!
Great days just ahead for owners at LRHC!
Ronnie
Great days just ahead for owners at LRHC!
Ronnie
I'm sorry Ronnie, You're missing the point (or at least my point).
The club is just that, a club run by the management committee in line with a constitution. The committee can only do what is allowed by the constitution and neither it or the management of the club has any right or mandate to go outside of it.
This is done for a very good reason, which is to prevent the club or a management company doing things against the wishes of the members. As far as I can see (and I have read the constitution carfully), the club and the committee do not have any mandate to negotiate leisure facilities and/or impose any fee beyond the normal maintenance fee.
There is a route for things outside the constitution to be considered and indeed actioned. That is through the AGM or an SGM which could either give a specific mandate or vary the constitution to allow the actions as required.
In short (and in my opinion) the club should not have imposed the 'leisure' fee (or the additional maintenance fee) without consultation and to do so is to invite a legal challenge which would probably bankrupt the club... I want the club to thrive and I fully accept that the Hotels leisure facilities will be an asset but the club will not survive by taking shortcuts and playing fast and loose with the constitution.
R, Frankham
The club is just that, a club run by the management committee in line with a constitution. The committee can only do what is allowed by the constitution and neither it or the management of the club has any right or mandate to go outside of it.
This is done for a very good reason, which is to prevent the club or a management company doing things against the wishes of the members. As far as I can see (and I have read the constitution carfully), the club and the committee do not have any mandate to negotiate leisure facilities and/or impose any fee beyond the normal maintenance fee.
There is a route for things outside the constitution to be considered and indeed actioned. That is through the AGM or an SGM which could either give a specific mandate or vary the constitution to allow the actions as required.
In short (and in my opinion) the club should not have imposed the 'leisure' fee (or the additional maintenance fee) without consultation and to do so is to invite a legal challenge which would probably bankrupt the club... I want the club to thrive and I fully accept that the Hotels leisure facilities will be an asset but the club will not survive by taking shortcuts and playing fast and loose with the constitution.
R, Frankham