Could anyone indicate where I can find the results of the motions put forward / committee member votes at the recent AGM?
I was on zoom for the first session of the meeting but couldn't attend the second due to prior commitments.
Many thanks
Jeanette Wilson
AGM voting results
From what I heard so far which was the result on a contentious motion, the levy was passed.
With 64% of studios and apartments for sale on club website,and this does not include those who are selling privately or don't turn up, this is without doubt a turning point for the club and an easy exit strategy for many turning into "the Highland Club Clearance".
With 64% of studios and apartments for sale on club website,and this does not include those who are selling privately or don't turn up, this is without doubt a turning point for the club and an easy exit strategy for many turning into "the Highland Club Clearance".
I think you could be right Stuart! Particularly as a less than welcomed, or indeed useful, blast from the past has returned to the Committee! How many months do you think before our Refurbishment Budget is once again being spent on one 'White Elephant' Project after another? A case of unwelcome Deja vu? However, this time around I can't see many of the original Owners being prepared to watch the Club going backwards yet again into a steep decline due to Funds being wasted as in the past, this time they will be off!
Unfortunately 'New Owners' who have bought into the Club over the past few years have absolutely no idea of the Hundreds of Thousands of pounds from the Club's coffers that were wasted on largely 'White Elephant' projects that were in no stretch of the imagination anything to do with a Time Share Club, never mind it's Refurbishment Programme, all they did was drain the Club of Funds and lead to exorbitant Court Cases!
This latest request for 'one off yearly payments x 5 years' is yet more Club Members' Cash going into a Black Hole. There are more appropriate and faster ways to raise money than by asking owners to cough up cash yet again!
Ronnie
Unfortunately 'New Owners' who have bought into the Club over the past few years have absolutely no idea of the Hundreds of Thousands of pounds from the Club's coffers that were wasted on largely 'White Elephant' projects that were in no stretch of the imagination anything to do with a Time Share Club, never mind it's Refurbishment Programme, all they did was drain the Club of Funds and lead to exorbitant Court Cases!
This latest request for 'one off yearly payments x 5 years' is yet more Club Members' Cash going into a Black Hole. There are more appropriate and faster ways to raise money than by asking owners to cough up cash yet again!
Ronnie
Now that there has been the return of a blast from the past I would expect at least 2 committee members to resign after the things they have said about this particular person.
If they don't then unfortunately it will prove they have no morals or principles.
Oh and watch the fees go up too.
I reckon if you have Highland lodge you will also see a fee increase of between 7-10% as well as £60 in 2024. This will add an extra £100ish to payment made in 2023 and in 5 years time a fee for a Highland lodge will be in region of almost £900- £1000 and still not refurbished.
One thing it is guaranteed is we have some if not most of the best paid hospitality staff in the area and we don't even have a restaurant or a bar.
If they don't then unfortunately it will prove they have no morals or principles.
Oh and watch the fees go up too.
I reckon if you have Highland lodge you will also see a fee increase of between 7-10% as well as £60 in 2024. This will add an extra £100ish to payment made in 2023 and in 5 years time a fee for a Highland lodge will be in region of almost £900- £1000 and still not refurbished.
One thing it is guaranteed is we have some if not most of the best paid hospitality staff in the area and we don't even have a restaurant or a bar.
I feel a golden opportunity to raise ample funds and rid the club of the cost of maintaining the studio block has been lost. £500,000 would have negated the need to impose a 5 year levy on owners and provided the funds to refurbish the remaining units needing attention.
Another aspect is that its now going to be even harder to sell weeks to new owners in view of the rising cost.
Commitee decisions aren’t always easy and often complex but its not looking great
Another aspect is that its now going to be even harder to sell weeks to new owners in view of the rising cost.
Commitee decisions aren’t always easy and often complex but its not looking great
The bigger issue that has been ignored is the real cost of refurbishments.
£90,000 is a fantasy cost as it does not appear to include labour, cost of the loss of rental income or the cost of re- accommodation of those owners impacted.
I thought this type of poor planning and fiscal tomfoolery had been eradicated.
Also still to be factored in is the cost of the water tank and any other work at Glenrannoch and no doubt other items which will be hidden in accounts or further capitalised.
£90,000 is a fantasy cost as it does not appear to include labour, cost of the loss of rental income or the cost of re- accommodation of those owners impacted.
I thought this type of poor planning and fiscal tomfoolery had been eradicated.
Also still to be factored in is the cost of the water tank and any other work at Glenrannoch and no doubt other items which will be hidden in accounts or further capitalised.
I agree with these points, Stuart. The last couple of years or so has seen a period of stability for the club without a doubt due to the efforts by the Committee however unless Im badly mistaken we appear to be heading for some shaky ground again.
The 5 year levy won’t encourage any new owners to sign up in my opinion and of course there’s the mandatory Leisure charge too, whether any owner wants to use the facilities or not. Selling any weeks must be difficult.
Im sure I picked up at the zoom AGM that a new leisure contract is to be negotiated and owners will be consulted re this in a survey but maybe Im mistaken.
The 2023 AGM information should be available soon which should clarify the foregoing.
I’m sure that many owners are now struggling to pay the annual maintenance charge, let alone the add ons and I’d anticipate that the sub committee which deals with hardship will be even busier.
The 5 year levy won’t encourage any new owners to sign up in my opinion and of course there’s the mandatory Leisure charge too, whether any owner wants to use the facilities or not. Selling any weeks must be difficult.
Im sure I picked up at the zoom AGM that a new leisure contract is to be negotiated and owners will be consulted re this in a survey but maybe Im mistaken.
The 2023 AGM information should be available soon which should clarify the foregoing.
I’m sure that many owners are now struggling to pay the annual maintenance charge, let alone the add ons and I’d anticipate that the sub committee which deals with hardship will be even busier.
You have both hit the nail on the head!
Any half decent Accountant would have asked for a Survey to have been carried out on the Apartment Block before he could ascertained if Refurbishing this block as opposed to selling it was a Financially viable proposition. Given there are now relative few Owners in these Apartments who want to remain there as most would jump at the chance of a move to a larger Unit by way of compensation, and the couple that would refuse to move out for purely 'Emotional' reasons would have to be told, that if the Survey showed extensive repairs were required rather than a Refurb then those owners would have to realise it was no longer a viable proposition or safe environment to remain, and offered a move to a larger Unit. If refused, then compensated with a cash sum to the value of an unrefurbished Apt probably £100. The Club cannot be held to ransom because of a few Owners' emotional attachment to their ownership of One Week Holiday Accom the very suggestion is totally ludicrous! Yet we are being asked to pay a surcharge for the next 5 years when sitting on the table was the chance to sell the Apartment Block (which would be subsequently demolished and rebuilt by a new owner) and HALF A MILLION POUNDS at least which could have been added to our Refurbishment Funds, not to mention the 65% of Club Owned Apts Units that would have been immediately wiped from our Accounts and the money subsequently saved!
Once all the Units are Refurbished the value of the Club to ALL Owners in a variety of levels would really increase massively and could do easily have been reached over the next 2/3 years with this cash!
It beggars belief therefore that the Committee decided not to update OWNERS on the verbal offer or give them the opportunity to vote on it. As Stuart has said, this marks a turning point in what for the past two years has been a very positive period for the Club after decades of strife and owners money being totally wasted by previous Committees! But the signs for the future are no longer looking positive.
Ronnie
Any half decent Accountant would have asked for a Survey to have been carried out on the Apartment Block before he could ascertained if Refurbishing this block as opposed to selling it was a Financially viable proposition. Given there are now relative few Owners in these Apartments who want to remain there as most would jump at the chance of a move to a larger Unit by way of compensation, and the couple that would refuse to move out for purely 'Emotional' reasons would have to be told, that if the Survey showed extensive repairs were required rather than a Refurb then those owners would have to realise it was no longer a viable proposition or safe environment to remain, and offered a move to a larger Unit. If refused, then compensated with a cash sum to the value of an unrefurbished Apt probably £100. The Club cannot be held to ransom because of a few Owners' emotional attachment to their ownership of One Week Holiday Accom the very suggestion is totally ludicrous! Yet we are being asked to pay a surcharge for the next 5 years when sitting on the table was the chance to sell the Apartment Block (which would be subsequently demolished and rebuilt by a new owner) and HALF A MILLION POUNDS at least which could have been added to our Refurbishment Funds, not to mention the 65% of Club Owned Apts Units that would have been immediately wiped from our Accounts and the money subsequently saved!
Once all the Units are Refurbished the value of the Club to ALL Owners in a variety of levels would really increase massively and could do easily have been reached over the next 2/3 years with this cash!
It beggars belief therefore that the Committee decided not to update OWNERS on the verbal offer or give them the opportunity to vote on it. As Stuart has said, this marks a turning point in what for the past two years has been a very positive period for the Club after decades of strife and owners money being totally wasted by previous Committees! But the signs for the future are no longer looking positive.
Ronnie
Agree entirely with the foregoing. I don’t have the actual figures but I believe that about 60% of the owners who voted on this resolution , voted for the 5 year levy so that’s it cast in stone and what we are all now required to pay.
What irks me a bit is the short notice before the AGM that this was going to be a resolution . I personally had no knowledge of an intended 5 year levy prior to that. It afforded no one any time realistically to research alternatives and suggest alternative options and at the AGM it was basically a “yes” or a “no” as expected.
The AGM was also the first that I knew that £500,000 had been offered by LRE to buy the studio block and yet I’ve no doubt that many votes on the levy were made by owners who did not have this knowledge.
What irks me a bit is the short notice before the AGM that this was going to be a resolution . I personally had no knowledge of an intended 5 year levy prior to that. It afforded no one any time realistically to research alternatives and suggest alternative options and at the AGM it was basically a “yes” or a “no” as expected.
The AGM was also the first that I knew that £500,000 had been offered by LRE to buy the studio block and yet I’ve no doubt that many votes on the levy were made by owners who did not have this knowledge.
As I have suggested after reading the newsletter which included information from chair, the GM and accountant, I felt it was glaringly obvious there was an agenda to push this levy through no matter what. The accountant himself made again,in my opinion a statement which was a get out clause.
I am still interested in why we should suggest a Third Party Loan as this was worrying and if it were coming from either a local establishment or even a member of the club it should have been disclosed to all owners similar to the description of the other suggestions.
The club had problems in the past because of similar set ups and it was good to see the accountant discounted this.
I am still interested in why we should suggest a Third Party Loan as this was worrying and if it were coming from either a local establishment or even a member of the club it should have been disclosed to all owners similar to the description of the other suggestions.
The club had problems in the past because of similar set ups and it was good to see the accountant discounted this.
The topic of the possibility of a third party loan was as much a surprise to me as was the suddenness of the announcement pertaining to a 5 year levy. It seems unlikely to me that either topic could have only, very recently have become options so it makes one wonder why this was only announced to owners so close to the AGM.
A third party loan in this instance would equate to a significant amount by anyone’s standards and so one would expect the lender to be named and what their connection to the club might be.
Even when I transfer a few thousand £’s these days the bank has a few thousand questions to ask (exaggeration) regarding purpose, how well I know the intended recipient, etc etc etc.
This is hypothetical of course since this option won’t be happening, for the time being at least
A third party loan in this instance would equate to a significant amount by anyone’s standards and so one would expect the lender to be named and what their connection to the club might be.
Even when I transfer a few thousand £’s these days the bank has a few thousand questions to ask (exaggeration) regarding purpose, how well I know the intended recipient, etc etc etc.
This is hypothetical of course since this option won’t be happening, for the time being at least
Yes I agree, the AGM did create a number of unresolved matters and raised many queries that also went unanswered, the main one being why Owners were not told that a 'proposition' to purchase the Apt Block had been made with a possible figure offered, which was more than likely negotiable as most initial 'Offers to Purchase' are. Even if this was just an opening gambit in respect of purchase, the fact that the Committee were proposing to ask Owners to vote on introducing Five consecutive years of a Financial Levy, meant the owners votes were casting their votes without the full facts being given to them by the Committee which is a shocking betrayal of trust! This now leads owners to ask what other information is being withheld from them and why?
We have been down this slippery pathway too many times before leading almost to the demise of the Club. Now the suggestion of person(s) unknown offering a substantial Loan to the Club raises a further red flag. I don't think I'm alone in thinking something about this whole AGM felt unsettling and somewhat underhand, the Committee is not being totally upfront with Owners, and from bitter experience we all know that sooner rather than later such matters in a small community like Kinloch Rannoch always comes to the attention of Owners!
Ronnie
We have been down this slippery pathway too many times before leading almost to the demise of the Club. Now the suggestion of person(s) unknown offering a substantial Loan to the Club raises a further red flag. I don't think I'm alone in thinking something about this whole AGM felt unsettling and somewhat underhand, the Committee is not being totally upfront with Owners, and from bitter experience we all know that sooner rather than later such matters in a small community like Kinloch Rannoch always comes to the attention of Owners!
Ronnie
From 30/06/24 a 2 bedroom non refurbished( until 2029/30)will cost at least £770 per week. Last year it was £643 and if you include up to 10% increase, the levy, a potential increase on leisure fees and not forgetting good old vat which could take it even higher it would mean highland lodge owners paying a £1000 by 2026.
Having listened to some owners on zoom at AGM re this levy it became patently clear to me that the gullibility we had as owners in the past, including me, still exists and to agree to this plan will only suit one pathway, and this pathway may not head in a good direction.
Having listened to some owners on zoom at AGM re this levy it became patently clear to me that the gullibility we had as owners in the past, including me, still exists and to agree to this plan will only suit one pathway, and this pathway may not head in a good direction.
Problem is many of the more recent 'Owners' who bought into the Club on either a 5 year Sales Contract or the much longer 'Life long' Contract, are ignorant of our Club's previous troubled History and some appear to think it is the Older Owners just throwing cold water on the Committees 'Refurbishment costs/plans'. The result being the Levy passed without close questioning as to a Plan B I even a Plan C, both obvious and worthy of Costing Out and consideration.
a) Sale of Apt Block - This would have removed immediately the deadweight of many Club Owned Apts which urgently need to be offloaded as we are ALL indirectly paying for their Management Fees!
b) Sale of Glenrannoch House - Rents paid are not covering it's costs to the Club, and the property is I think presently empty, but obviously would still require to be heated. We can't afford to carry 'deadweight' so we should have been given the opportunity to vote on Selling this Property as yet another alternative to the annual Levy.
Why the Accountant didn't suggest a much closer look at these two options is yet another mystery!
Ronnie
a) Sale of Apt Block - This would have removed immediately the deadweight of many Club Owned Apts which urgently need to be offloaded as we are ALL indirectly paying for their Management Fees!
b) Sale of Glenrannoch House - Rents paid are not covering it's costs to the Club, and the property is I think presently empty, but obviously would still require to be heated. We can't afford to carry 'deadweight' so we should have been given the opportunity to vote on Selling this Property as yet another alternative to the annual Levy.
Why the Accountant didn't suggest a much closer look at these two options is yet another mystery!
Ronnie
There is more deadweight at this club than just the studios/ apartments or Glenrannoch House.
Too many have taken advantage of this Club- not the owners, over the years and yet owners continue to pay the price for the illusions of grandeur by some, fanciful ambition and the lack of a realistic vision.
The lack of any real comments or even a newsletter re AGM is also, in my opinion a show of disrespect to those owners unable to attend, and there were many.
I wonder how many owners voted before they were aware of the full picture and if they knew, would they have voted differently.
Too many have taken advantage of this Club- not the owners, over the years and yet owners continue to pay the price for the illusions of grandeur by some, fanciful ambition and the lack of a realistic vision.
The lack of any real comments or even a newsletter re AGM is also, in my opinion a show of disrespect to those owners unable to attend, and there were many.
I wonder how many owners voted before they were aware of the full picture and if they knew, would they have voted differently.